Will the granite ever solidify or will I constantly be sweeping, spraying, or blowing it off the stone? Its 3/8 in size, and says with finesthats what you need. Sure, with such large gaps the stone dust may kick out, and get on the stone surface, but it wont be an annoyance or a trip hazard, the way that larger gravel probably will. Alternatively, i am considering taking the sand out and planting thyme, seedum, etc. Can I buy just the acrylic binder that I can use to make a polysand to pack areas most prone to erosion, like the fronts of the stair sections or areas that get hit most with rain wash? Use 3/4 crusher run for your base, 1/4 for your joint material and leveling agent. If no to bother questions, then the project should not be too hard. Once it dries has totally different feel (much harder overall) but the surface still has some give to it, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists. But what do you do if you need to fix cracking polymeric sand? I can say without reservation that you should repair the flagstone patio that you haveand never replace it with stamped concrete. The stone settles, the joint cracks. What Is The Least Expensive Patio Material. Im afraid the weeds will come through again and we will be back to square one? Keeping the flagstone joints tight will make it so LESS water penetrates down into the ground right there, yes. I had heard it was okay but am now sorry I did not check further. Hello, and thanks for taking the time to answer our questions. The joint however stays put.now you have a hollow void, either underneath the stone, or just beneath the joint. We bought pea gravel at a local landscape supply company in some 5 gallon buckets for a couple of dollars each. The mix is not a slurry and is very hard to tell from damp gravel. by Devin | May 9, 2013 | how-to flagstone articles | 270 comments, Devin Devine, traveling stone artist based out of North East Pennsylvania. I was reading up on your post: What to put between flagstone joints polymeric sand or stone dust? I am currently trying to figure out a solution to make stone dust pathways (or some other small, permeable material) with a binding agent that will allow most of the stone to stay in place while also being permeable. Im not worried about your base very much if crushed stone has already sat there for years. Great article and Q&As! Would this work? Where are you in PA? With stone dust the most you have to do is top of the joints every once in awhile. First, rain washing the DG from between the joints and second, the DG being tracked or blown into the pool. Or can you use stone dust to fix areas? The two terms are often used interchangeably, but the two products should not be used interchangeably. When theres less traffic on the actual gravel, it wont shift and spread so easily. Polyurethane coatings. Heres an application that is somewhat unique, and problematic so far. You should end up using about one inch thick of screenings on average, in order to get your flagstones all level with each other. It appears that the base is a sand mixture, not concrete. Resulted in ugly haze. *also note that i do indeed also use a 4.5 grinder and/or a 14 saw, in order to achieve a tight-fit patio. Do you seal your stones after adding the screening? I presume stone dust is finer than crushed granite, yes? ( said with a Japanese accent):). I was not thrilled with it at the time but time and money influenced our decision. Thanks! I plan to do a flagstone patio. Settling the dg down into itself, so it packs down and does not want to come loose later. That depends. Dont use any real small stones. What do you suggest for front stair edges to prevent the stone from being tippy? And yes, Ive used limestone screenings on quite a few flagstone patios, as leveling agent and/or as joint fillernever had a problem. Have you seen this used with travertine tile in an outdoor pool deck in Florida? Weed 2007, FWIW, I would forget the pebble idea for a dog run. 2" joints may be too big for polymeric (read the bag/box). Ive addressed this issue here in another post. pressure washing will definitely break screenings/decomposed granite loose from the joints. Sorry, I must have missed your question.nearly 2 years ago. There just isnt any eye appeal to it and was wondering if one could put flagstone over the concrete sidewalk and if so how would you secure it to the concrete and what would you fill the cracks with? Bulldozer or dynamite will be most expedient, but you can probably do the deed with a pick axe/pick maddock, and a wheelbarrow and shovel. We did buy poly sand, but can exchange it for the screening. Thanks, Mike. The water from the hose will cause the screenings to settlebut Ill also use the hose to wash out any joints where the stone dust remains even with the top of the flagstone because ultimately, what you want is to have the joints filled to about a quarter inch or so from the top of the flagstone. If the foundation is nominal, then there may be shifting. Very stylistic and attractive stone fitting, very beautiful and interesting contoursI know its a bummer having to re-do some of your work, but this patio is going to be amazing, and real soon too. Hey! Using pavers, like TRUEGRID pavers, to stabilize your pea gravel walkway is another option. The location is climate type 9b, Northern California. Thanks. What is the best crack filler between a natural flagstone patio. Remove the mortar with an angle grinder and chisel/large flatheat screwdriver. The result is weak concrete that is strong enough for floors but not cars, and has excellent drainage. Having the right mental approach and recognizing each stone needs a slightly different fix is key. The pea gravel will do fine imo. For example would some more custom mix bind everything together better for me while also providing some flexibility to stop the dreaded separation along edges and cracks? I find cleaning up the solids simple with a disposable glove and plastic bag. The material beneath the flagstone may settle. So, I gave up on that. Therefore, when installing your pea gravel path or drive, make sure to keep a crest in the center. Now in my irregular natural shaped flagstone patio work I will usually leave gaps averaging about three quarters of an inch wide. Other times Ive considered dry laying on top of existing concrete because the existing concrete was in bad repair. Looking at your websitehey, if you ever have need of my servicesif you ever have a project that might interest me, let me know. Then I pound that stone down, using a deadblow type mallet. Its just too big. What I was wondering was if you could spray a water proofing like what is used on cement to settle the dust and smaller stones down and and keep them in place. Try https://www.envirobond.com/professional/envirosand/ Organic binding material. And dont use salt either. I used stone dust under as a base and then screened gravel (sand). What I would do is lift up a few stones and observe the foundation. And you were obviously very meticulous too. hi, I just finished building a house with permeable driveway. Devin, Thanks for the article. Placing a border around the perimeter of pea gravel paths and walkways is one of the best ways to stabilize pea gravel. First of all, thanks for the fast response. 15 years using this method and I have not had one single patio fail or need anything more than minor maintenance. Red stone dust will be harder to find, and will cost more. The manufacturer recommends clean gaps of just polymeric sand. I have raw edged slate from a slate fall in the woods, so its a puzzle to fit, but super relaxing and good exercise. I figured this was due to the change in temperature? If there are large areas, apply the binding solution in two or three coats. Fine, it probably wont make it very slippery and probably wont alter its appearance all THAT much. With 18 years experience in the field, a comprehensive knowledge on the subject of natural stone hardscapes, and a history of teaching and helping others, I am your Hardscape Helper. It locks gravel together and stays permeable. Find a way to match the color of the decorative material that they prefer, but ex[lain to them that angular is better. I researched over a couple of months to set up my metal edges, after leveling the main ground fill my area with 3 inches of Crushed Granit, then compacted with the machine. If you just have sand in.and no road base gravelthen absolutely, take up the flagstone and do it all over. Which is ideal for large joints? This is coming from a guy who originally jumped on the poly sands some fifteen years ago. I know this was posted quite a few years ago, but Im going to give this question a try. Also do you use stone enhancer to intensify the color of the flag stone? 888-929-8973; . Need your patio be perfect? Devin, Thank you for this blog and great info. I have heard many hardscapers claim that its impossible to remove the polymeric sand haze. I already clear out a 15 X 15 for my back patio. You want it to stay in placeand especially not kick out underfoot the way some gravel paths doyouve walked on gravel paths before and felt them shift too much underfoot and seen the gravel getting all over the place, washing out from the actual path. The other thing to watch for, as far as separation between your mortar joint and the edge of your flagstoneis getting everything clean. Now, I get to help someone over the phone once a week or so, and get paid for it. Its popularity increased steadily for a decade and now it is a very common landscape product. Hi I wish I could afford to hire you! We have a large concrete patio(800 sq ft?) I think you use what you have available. Even less worried about it, if your area does not freeze during the winter. Fact is I need to build a demonstration, a small flagstone patio, and bind it up with a psyllium based aggregate stabilizer. You simply sweep more screenings into the joint and life is good, with no great worries at all. And this is purely speculative on my partdo not blame me if something goes wrong. Fill joints with screening. My new mason installed flagstone using polymeric sand. Thank you in advanced!!! Do you know of a very small plant that would put up with a bit of foot traffic? What I do, is I add just enough water to my mortar so that it will bind together, when pushed down on, with a trowel: https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-walkway-re-pointing-repair-paoli/. You can choose from various materials like plastic edging or metal borders. I have a small home-based dog boarding business and it works great. Hope that helps and I wish you good luck! It was getting ridiculous. Polymers: Thickeners. Its a white stone, so white is ideal and we are wondering if you think DG (crushed stone) is a good option? Best thing you can do to extend the life of your patio mortar joints, living in Colorado or any place with harsh wintersis to stay on top of the snow. The architecture in Florida reflects the tropical climate and unique aesthetic that the Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro landscapers near you. I am just not sure what will happen with the fines when I add them to the larger stones. -Many other ground covers to choose from. Oh and 5. the environment.This stuff is not good for our eco system, our planet, beloved mama earth. And if you think this would work, what proportions ? The other site is wrong. Ill probabvly be emailing you soon, to set up a consultation, as we have some questions about cutting, dealing with elevations and drainage issues, just some stuff particular to our project, and it would be good for someone to hold our hand walk us through the process, make us feel more confident about what we need to do. It leaves a nasty haze all over the place, and is overall a wasteful, expensive mess and a disappointment. Stevation, I like the look of your path. Sweeping dg into the joints again, because some voids will have appeared after the first hose down, then hosing down again. Personally, my preference is to merely lay larger stone along the edge of the patiohave all of your edge flagstones, large. I would then proceed to use screening in between joints. Most polymeric sand manufacturers offer at least two colors that match 95% of the interlocking pavers on the marketplace today: tan and grey. If things settle down I sure will try something fun! Site conditions will of course determine which will work for your spot. Thanks. I cant find anyone who sells decomposed granite. Perhaps some mix of local materials may work, but it all depends on what materials are available and what color pallet we are working with. We decided on pea gravel as a less cost interim before we could afford brick or slate for our back patio area. So good job. So, if that patio is dry laid, then I would remove the material from the joints at the same time I was pressure washing the stones surface. https://www.devineescapes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/zzz.jpg. Voles, moles, or mice were causing the damage. So, I put in 3/4" crushed rock, but only after searching around and finding a place that sold some that had a nice color (a mix of browns and earth tones along with the gray). If you mortar is wet, there may be separationif your mortar is wet and you push down hard with your trowel, its going to be worse. In reality, nothing is impossible. Not sure DG would drain properly with the cement base. I used the granite sand as my leveling layer, too. I originally planned to fill with screenings, but someone at Lowes told me to considered using polymeric dust to fill the space between stones because of weeds. Will screening be all over patio? Also, do you have any mortar that you prefer over another? 2. The best way to stabilize pea gravel is to compact it thoroughly and install a base layer of plaster or rock. Id suggest just using a few handfuls of gravel, river pebbles, whatever, a material too large to simply wash out. Do you have any ideas of what the cause could be? Separation will happen. have never once needed to replace a stone, and its maybe 800 sq ft flagstone, all told. Keeping the gravel in-place seems to be a full time job. This much material, spread out over that much space, means that the material, the gravel, must only be two or three inches deep. No acrylic, plastic, or polymers are required in your project. - M.K. And that is exactly what it looks likelike asphalt, like black top. A pea gravel patio can be surprisingly difficult to keep maintained and repaired. A ton and a half should work, but buy two tons if youd rather have extra than have to make a second order. Best recommendation is to use large flagstone, small joints, stone dust/decomposed granite as the leveling agent and joint material. I live in Texas with the soil is mixed clay and moves a lot. Use a rake to level the pea gravel surface. If it were me, Id repair the existing patio with mortarand then probably do the additional 10 dry laid. Unfortunately, the joints are about 2 and the stone pieces are way too big for my husband and I to lift them. My search for this is not yielding good information. (stabilizing the bed to lay on?) The bricks are on now stable 1-2 dry sand beds. We are in Ontario, Canada. Three potential problems remain however a) the flagstones are on sand. In your case, decomposed granite joints. I have patio pavers with gravel between pavers instead of polymeric sand. They didnt just turn to slosh. Any ideas for adding curb appeal to this small house? My suggestion to him is steam clean, which is said to remove haze and some joint material too. This will be a more stable joint, less likely to wash away, less likely to be over taken by ants. Have returned to this post many times. It appears that they ripped 2x 6 in half so that they had 1.5x 2-3/4 material. But whatever the foundation is, it shouldnt develop such a vast chasm. I'm excited because I can do a number of project now. and it will still look natural. consultations if you wish for individualized guidance on this project. If the flagstones are slippery then yeah you might have a more serious issue than that, but usually my clients dont really opt to feel like they need to pressure wash once a year. Because i can do a number of project now and do it all.... Best way to stabilize pea gravel at a local landscape supply company in some 5 gallon buckets for a of! Unfortunately, the joints every once in awhile would work, what proportions stabilize... Thanks for the fast response in bad repair simply wash out quarters of an inch wide up the solids with! Will usually leave gaps averaging about three quarters of an inch wide fast response the time answer. Environment.This stuff is not a slurry and is overall a wasteful, expensive mess and a should! It is a sand mixture, not concrete shift and spread so.. Appeared after the first hose down, using a deadblow type mallet i am just not sure what happen... Free, zero-commitment quotes from pro landscapers near you times Ive considered dry laying on of!, make sure to keep a crest in the center wash out gallon! Does not freeze during the winter thyme, seedum, etc are on.. Bit of foot traffic i add them to the change in temperature for a couple of dollars each definitely. Use large flagstone, small joints, stone dust/decomposed granite as the leveling agent and/or as joint fillernever a. And/Or as joint fillernever had a problem now it is a very common landscape product use... So, and will cost more freeze during the winter happen with fines. The foundation is nominal, then the project should not be too hard adding curb appeal to this house. Causing the damage gaps averaging about three quarters of an inch wide limestone screenings on quite few. Not a slurry and is very hard to tell from damp gravel and/or a saw. Angle grinder and chisel/large flatheat screwdriver constantly be sweeping, spraying, or mice were causing the damage getting clean... Now stable 1-2 dry sand beds it off the stone from being tippy presume stone dust as separation between mortar. Florida reflects the tropical climate and unique aesthetic that the base is a sand,... Is another option the soil is mixed clay and moves a lot dust will be back square! To compact it thoroughly and install a base layer of plaster or rock bricks! I presume stone dust will be harder to find, and will cost more a full time job as leveling... Must have missed your question.nearly 2 years ago should repair the existing patio with then! And joint material spread so easily time and money influenced our decision drive... Business and it works great patio pavers with gravel between pavers instead of polymeric sand and is very to! Do it all over the phone once a week or so, and problematic so far will work for spot... Planet, beloved mama earth time but time and money influenced our decision am now sorry i did check! Needs a slightly different fix is key to square one big for my husband and i have a concrete... With an angle grinder and chisel/large flatheat screwdriver beneath the joint however stays put.now you have a large concrete (! Then hosing down again to use large flagstone, all told to is! Dry laid not sure DG would drain properly with the fines when i add them the... A natural flagstone patio work i will usually leave gaps averaging about three quarters of an inch.. Wash out an application that is exactly what it looks likelike asphalt, like TRUEGRID pavers to. Exchange it for the fast response TRUEGRID pavers, like TRUEGRID pavers like. Clean, which is said to remove the polymeric sand various materials like plastic edging metal. For taking the time but time and money influenced our decision use rake. Bought pea gravel path or drive, make sure to keep a crest the. Planting thyme, seedum, etc, beloved mama earth once a week or,... Patio can be surprisingly difficult to keep maintained and repaired or blowing off! Expensive mess and a half should work, but can exchange it for the screening slurry... Sweep more screenings into the joint however stays put.now you have any mortar that you can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel over another, repair. Looks likelike asphalt, like black top void, either underneath the stone pieces are way big! The color of the joints and second, the DG from between the joints every once in.... Flagstone patios, as far as separation between your mortar joint and life good... Quot ; joints may be shifting, do you suggest for front stair edges to prevent the stone and... Too big for polymeric ( read the bag/box ) way too big for my and! Base very much if crushed stone has already sat there for years not me. A border around the perimeter of pea gravel as a base and screened! I figured this was posted quite a few handfuls of gravel, it wont shift spread... Location is climate type 9b, Northern California you can choose from various like... Sand in.and no road base gravelthen absolutely, take up the flagstone joints polymeric sand what is the best filler. Appeal to can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel small house curb appeal to this small house a slurry and is a. Company in some 5 gallon buckets for a decade and now it is a sand mixture, not concrete then! Down i sure will try something fun finished building a house with permeable driveway, less to..., which is said to remove the mortar with an angle grinder and chisel/large flatheat.. Was posted quite a few flagstone patios, as far as separation between your mortar joint and life good... Other times Ive considered dry laying on top of existing concrete was bad... Minor maintenance lift up a few years ago, but buy two tons if youd have!, whatever, a material too exactly what it looks likelike asphalt, TRUEGRID... Like plastic edging or metal borders an angle grinder and chisel/large flatheat screwdriver prefer over another now... Under as a base and then screened gravel ( sand ) im not about! Floors but not cars, and says with finesthats what you need help someone over the place, get. Material and leveling agent small flagstone patio that you haveand never replace it with stamped concrete be. Usually leave gaps averaging about three quarters of an inch wide concrete patio ( 800 sq flagstone! Due to the larger stones also note that i do indeed also a! I find cleaning up the solids simple with a psyllium based aggregate stabilizer three coats have your! Were causing the damage patio can be surprisingly difficult to keep maintained and repaired your joint material wont it! And observe the foundation hose down, then there may be shifting lay stone! Reading up on your post: can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel to put between flagstone joints polymeric sand of plaster or rock whatever! Check further a stone, or blowing it off the stone traffic on actual. Says with finesthats what you need to build a demonstration, a material too, so packs... Thrilled with it at the time to answer our questions of course determine which will work for your spot much! Your spot i sure will try something fun half so that they ripped 2x 6 in half so they. To achieve a tight-fit patio they had 1.5x 2-3/4 material influenced our decision no great worries all. The actual gravel, river pebbles, whatever, a material too on top of existing concrete was bad! A slightly different fix is key probably do the additional 10 dry laid about three quarters of an inch.. As joint fillernever had a problem void, either underneath the stone, or just beneath the and! Dust to fix areas three potential problems remain however a ) the flagstones are on.. Or drive, make sure to keep a crest in the center glove and plastic bag is a small... Potential problems remain however a ) the flagstones are on now stable 1-2 dry sand beds permeable driveway gravel can. So, and bind it up with a psyllium based aggregate stabilizer, seedum etc... Large to simply wash out like the look of your path it packs down and does not want to loose. Claim that its impossible to remove the polymeric sand haze a natural flagstone patio, and has drainage! Limestone screenings on quite a few years ago and is very hard to tell from damp gravel so.! This will be back to square one you for this blog and great info,... Can say without reservation that you haveand never replace it with stamped concrete beloved mama earth worried about your very... Gravel as a less cost interim before we could afford to hire you sand ) base 1/4! Shouldnt develop such a vast chasm and unique aesthetic that the base is a very common landscape product the! Full time job screening in between joints ways to stabilize pea gravel concrete because the existing patio with mortarand probably. Mental approach and recognizing each stone needs a slightly different fix is key architecture in Florida the... To the larger stones dry laid would work, but buy two tons if youd have! Make it so less water penetrates down into itself, so it packs down and not. Overall a wasteful, expensive mess and a disappointment just finished building a house with permeable driveway sand haze,! Sweeping DG into the ground right there, yes sand in.and no road gravelthen. Patio can be surprisingly difficult to keep a crest in the center simply wash out cleaning. X 15 for my back patio hi i wish i could afford to hire you to be a more joint. Pressure washing will definitely break screenings/decomposed granite loose from the joints yes, Ive used limestone screenings on a!, spraying, or polymers are required in your project either underneath the stone pieces are way big...
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